vkrishn
07-28 03:25 AM
Sure with dead bobhead braincells of yours, nobody expects your self image to be high enough. Its not for wimps wearing zippers to the side like you. If you are man enough come and talk to me, and will see who gets handcuffed.
Talk to you about what? Amway?:D Whole point is we don't Amway guys chasing us with your cheesy lines or "brilliant" ideas.. So stop chasing us! Go rope in your relatives or any other insane person.
Why would i want to talk to a Amway guy when i am saying i don;t want to. If one comes to me and talks about Amway and does not understand the word "NO", "I AM NOT INTERESTED" and keeps chasing me he will face the law.
Now if you are a man/women/whatever and if you talk to me about AMWAY be ready to face the music!
Talk to you about what? Amway?:D Whole point is we don't Amway guys chasing us with your cheesy lines or "brilliant" ideas.. So stop chasing us! Go rope in your relatives or any other insane person.
Why would i want to talk to a Amway guy when i am saying i don;t want to. If one comes to me and talks about Amway and does not understand the word "NO", "I AM NOT INTERESTED" and keeps chasing me he will face the law.
Now if you are a man/women/whatever and if you talk to me about AMWAY be ready to face the music!
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gcnotfiledyet
06-12 03:28 PM
You mean bureaucracy from Indian administration and also from US (since they both have to work together) - forget it man - it will never happen
I am glad you were not involved in nuclear deal that just happened against all odds. Can you even imagine US giving waiver exclusively for India, while during clinton years they opposed everything about India citing NPT?
I am glad you were not involved in nuclear deal that just happened against all odds. Can you even imagine US giving waiver exclusively for India, while during clinton years they opposed everything about India citing NPT?
go_guy123
06-11 04:04 AM
ratturani, i am seeing an increasing number of posts that state the facts as clearly as you have stated... thats great... now i think somewhere some day, someone will float a good idea of motivating employers such as MS, Intel, BAC etc to fight for us instead of trying to motivate only the congress... see, we dont have too much of power in congress... :-(
The earlier people realize it the better it is. GC for non EB 1 - India is over.
Employer will get motivated only when they feel the need. As of now they dont need EB reform as H1B is serving the purpose. Its like chasing a mirage in the desert. My friends who didnt chase GC are the ones doing professionally well. Those who have stayed on the GC boat have seen their careers stagnate and destroyed.
However I have still seen many Indians in US oblivious or ignorant about it including my cousin.
The earlier people realize it the better it is. GC for non EB 1 - India is over.
Employer will get motivated only when they feel the need. As of now they dont need EB reform as H1B is serving the purpose. Its like chasing a mirage in the desert. My friends who didnt chase GC are the ones doing professionally well. Those who have stayed on the GC boat have seen their careers stagnate and destroyed.
However I have still seen many Indians in US oblivious or ignorant about it including my cousin.
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lazycis
02-14 02:59 PM
Life's not simple. It's not A or B. It's usually A and B that succeeds. Like I mentioned in an earlier post going ahead with option A (lawsuit) closes option B ( meetings and negotiations).
Best approach is IV keeps option B (lobbying) open while a group that agrees option A is better continues to pursue it. There is a lot of support for this measure here. What it lacks is a convinced leadership! Once the leadership emerges and there is action on the ground, who knows, the skeptics may join too.
Totally agree. A and B are not mutually exclusive. We need to push for admin fix and in the meantime explore lawsuit possibility WITHOUT using IV name (does not mean IV members cannot participate as individuals in the lawsuit).
Best approach is IV keeps option B (lobbying) open while a group that agrees option A is better continues to pursue it. There is a lot of support for this measure here. What it lacks is a convinced leadership! Once the leadership emerges and there is action on the ground, who knows, the skeptics may join too.
Totally agree. A and B are not mutually exclusive. We need to push for admin fix and in the meantime explore lawsuit possibility WITHOUT using IV name (does not mean IV members cannot participate as individuals in the lawsuit).
more...
Lasantha
12-14 04:31 PM
Simple. If it wasn't for that ceiling the vast majority of the visas will go to applicants from the oversubscribed countries. Now this is not a bad thing if the visas are in unlimited supply. But since that's not the case, the country ceiling ensures that even people from smaller nations will get an equal oportunity to claim a visa before all the visa are grabbed by their BIG brothers and sisters. And what's more what ever is left is given back to the oversubscribed countries.
How can you call that unfair? Is it fair to deprive a person from a smaller country, equal chance to have go at his GC?
I understand how the current system prevents people of one nationality obtaining all the visas but I am not sure how it prevents any one group or sector monopolizing. Care to clarify?
How can you call that unfair? Is it fair to deprive a person from a smaller country, equal chance to have go at his GC?
I understand how the current system prevents people of one nationality obtaining all the visas but I am not sure how it prevents any one group or sector monopolizing. Care to clarify?
EB2IMMIGRANT
08-20 09:07 PM
Heat on SRK was because of scanner on Bollywood shows - US - World - NEWS - The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/world/us/Heat-on-SRK-was-because-of-scanner-on-Bollywood-shows/articleshow/4916759.cms)
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amsgc
12-13 11:11 PM
When I get a chance, I also talk to my co-workers and friends who are citizens, especially when they say - are you a citizen yet?
Surprise! Surprise! - many of them are unaware of this racist provision and the response you usually get is "that sucks man". So, people understand. Yes American citizens see that this is an unjust law.
If we talk enough about it, who knows, maybe some policymaker will hear it from his/her constituent.
Yes, we as IV are meeting lawmakers and lobbying, and media campaign too.
Just discussing if anything else can be done.
Surprise! Surprise! - many of them are unaware of this racist provision and the response you usually get is "that sucks man". So, people understand. Yes American citizens see that this is an unjust law.
If we talk enough about it, who knows, maybe some policymaker will hear it from his/her constituent.
Yes, we as IV are meeting lawmakers and lobbying, and media campaign too.
Just discussing if anything else can be done.
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ujjwal_p
05-11 07:03 PM
Remember, you are doing this to potentially ditch India and to change your nationality and are going to take oath
Wrong! Stop assuming dude. People are here because they need the Green Card. We don't take an oath to renounce loyalties when we get it. Of course your intention is clear and I am thankful that we Indians don't need to count on you. Of course, its interesting that you are quite happy being a US Citizen when it's the US which has called the LTTE a terrorist organization. Hmm, I hope you did your research. Anyway, too late. We don't need you anymore in India and like I said earlier, good riddance. All the best!
Wrong! Stop assuming dude. People are here because they need the Green Card. We don't take an oath to renounce loyalties when we get it. Of course your intention is clear and I am thankful that we Indians don't need to count on you. Of course, its interesting that you are quite happy being a US Citizen when it's the US which has called the LTTE a terrorist organization. Hmm, I hope you did your research. Anyway, too late. We don't need you anymore in India and like I said earlier, good riddance. All the best!
more...
Lasantha
12-14 03:45 PM
Good summary but let me also add the observation that eliminating the per country quota alone will not bring the desired benefit unless the following are also implemneted
1) Increase of the total EB quota
2) Exclude dependents from the quota
3) Re-capture unused visas from past years.
To summarize the discussions on this thread:
Yes, it is 7 % for all countries.
Now it is manifestly obvious that the 7 % figure is arbitrary, and not fair. That much we can all agree on.
The real question, as raised in the first post of the thread by soljabhai is:
(A) Is that constitutional?
(B) (And this is the real question): If it is, what should we do about it?
Intelligent questions, both.
The answer to (A) is not clear. We need a competent constitutional expert to opine on the matter.
For (B), (which is what the thread is really all about), there are lively discussions with differing views.
lazycis has presented good evidence that the case is not cut and dried legally. It might be unfair, but those are the laws.
mbartosik, alterego, me and others have argued (from different angles) in terms of pragmatism. (Cost is not worth the benefit)
garybanz, soljabhai, and others have argued that it is worth it (Cost is worth the benefit).
Anyway, agree or disagree, its an interesting thread with interesting posts..
1) Increase of the total EB quota
2) Exclude dependents from the quota
3) Re-capture unused visas from past years.
To summarize the discussions on this thread:
Yes, it is 7 % for all countries.
Now it is manifestly obvious that the 7 % figure is arbitrary, and not fair. That much we can all agree on.
The real question, as raised in the first post of the thread by soljabhai is:
(A) Is that constitutional?
(B) (And this is the real question): If it is, what should we do about it?
Intelligent questions, both.
The answer to (A) is not clear. We need a competent constitutional expert to opine on the matter.
For (B), (which is what the thread is really all about), there are lively discussions with differing views.
lazycis has presented good evidence that the case is not cut and dried legally. It might be unfair, but those are the laws.
mbartosik, alterego, me and others have argued (from different angles) in terms of pragmatism. (Cost is not worth the benefit)
garybanz, soljabhai, and others have argued that it is worth it (Cost is worth the benefit).
Anyway, agree or disagree, its an interesting thread with interesting posts..
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hopefulgc
09-23 11:43 AM
And so it begins... a guy puts on the table a good idea.. and then everyone start listing what is wrong with it or how it does not fit in their small self-centered universe.
Let the censure begin!
As completely unrelated these two issues are (from a law maker's perspective) on a normal day, these are possibly those times when each of these issues can help the other.
IV has been discussing about the possibility of one for two solution (partial). The idea is to request congress to exempt EB applicants & their dependents from numerical limits of the Immigrant visas, if they buy a home. It is my belief that market sentiment is the most important thing in any financial market(s) and the housing prospects look pretty bleak. There are lot of members in the EB community that have NOT bought their own home, even though they could afford one because of the uncertainty with EB GC. IV's idea is to bridge the financial committees and judiciary committees in the House/Senate and see if corresponding Chairman/Ranking members are willing to listen. Things are moving so fast with the 700bn USD bail out plan and we will NOT have time to do things the normal way, through our counsel. We have to present this idea to the corresponding staff members of key members of congress (see list below) and see if this gets traction now or going forward.
Please do not bring EB-5 discussion/comparison here. The proposed partial solution is different from EB-5 in that EB-5 investors invest money and we are investing in our future with a genuine intention of making USA our permanent home.
If you already have a home, thats fine. Any such legislation will reduce the wait times in EB categories and we need housing markets to rebound for a safer economy before the ripple effects are felt every where.
Who to write to
Staff members(Chief of Staff, Legislative LA, Financial LA, Legislative Director) of Chairman/Ranking members of House/Senate Judiciary committee & Finance/Banking committee, Staff members of your representative and your senators. Please find staff members of the committees in the spreadsheet (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pptN-jEpAiyd3snslhPjBfw).
You can find your representative & senator staff members on this website (http://www.outsourcecongress.org/outsource/congress/schstaffers.html).
Please use valid email addresses and NOT fictitious/junk mail. It undermines the whole purpose and our emails will be flagged by mail scanners / spam checkers as some thing similar to famous Nigeria bank account scams.
Email Subject: Proposal to alleviate current US Housing/economic crisis
Content/Message
SUMMARY
This proposal alleviates the current US economic crisis, by motivating the US high skilled, legal immigrant workers to purchase homes. The size of this immigrant population is approximately 800,000 individuals. This effort if successful would inject up to US$ 20Billion approximately into the economy (approximately US$ 100 Billion in houses sold across the country) , while at the same time directing this money into the root cause of the economic crisis � the illiquidity of the national housing market. The above calculation is done
assuming a median US home price of $212,400 and buyers making a down-payment of 20% of the cost of the home. Roughly estimating 400,000 buyers.
BACKGROUND
Undoubtedly, we are all devastated by the shake up on Wall Street in the past 15 days. Experts agree that the underpinning problem is the housing crisis caused by sub-prime mortgage loans. Many of us, who cannot afford our monthly mortgage payments are losing homes and putting them up for sale and foreclosure, which further adds to the crisis. At the same time, most of the Employment-based (EB) immigrant community would like to purchase homes and make the United States a permanent home for their families. These EB immigrants however, are living in a state of limbo, mostly in rental apartments because of the delays and uncertainties involved with the EB immigration procedure. The wait times in EB categories are exacerbated by the delays in processing by USCIS, even though eligible applicants have filed for Permanent Residency also known as Adjustment of Status. Such processing delays have resulted in the wastage of 218,000 immigrant visa numbers (Page 52 of USCIS Ombudsman Annual report 2007). The current Department of State visa bulletin shows 7+ years of wait times in certain categories. We strongly believe that legislation can be worked out in such a way that the housing markets all over the country can move towards recovery, while at the same time motivating the Green Card applicants to catalyze this recovery.
It should be noted that this proposal by no means brings more immigrant workers into the US. The workers in the EB, skilled category are already present in the US, doing skilled jobs that no US worker is available to do. They are part of the long queue of backlogged cases that USICIS will eventually process; however, this wait can take years and in that case could not be used as a tool to minimize the course of the current economic crisis.
SOLUTION
Congress can pass legislation that exempts EB green card applicants and their dependents from the numerical limits of visa numbers, provided applicant(s) have bought a home making 20% down payment on the sale price of the home, for a time period deemed necessary by the congress.
How can Employment based Immigrants help alleviate the housing problem?
(1) Employment based immigrants are highly skilled and are employed in occupations such as Software, IT, Health care, Energy, Finance, Education and Research & Development across the United States.
(2) Average income of these individuals/households is around 65,000/130,000 USD.
(3) All these Employment based immigrants have gone through Department of Labor�s recruiting process, which certifies that there is no willing, able and qualified US Citizen to do the job.
(4) Most of the Employment based immigrants have excellent credit history and good source of income to make the payments needed for their home mortgage.
(5) By requiring a 20% down payment from this group of buyers, Congress can directly channel this money to where it is need most � at the banks.
(6) Employment based green card applicants have been living in the United States for 6-8 years. Many of them have US graduate degrees in their fields of expertise. These applicants are well versed with the American culture and will not change the cultural landscape.
(7) Financial burden on US government and treasury will be reduced drastically if the glut of houses in the market decreases.
As a member of the community that wants to make the US its permanent home, I want to contribute to a solution that helps USA and US during these tough times. I sincerely believe that the 30 year commitment on mortgages by Employment based immigrants in the housing market, backed by solid, risk free mortgages can turn the down ward spiral in the housing market into a upward spiral.
END OF CONTENT
Let the censure begin!
As completely unrelated these two issues are (from a law maker's perspective) on a normal day, these are possibly those times when each of these issues can help the other.
IV has been discussing about the possibility of one for two solution (partial). The idea is to request congress to exempt EB applicants & their dependents from numerical limits of the Immigrant visas, if they buy a home. It is my belief that market sentiment is the most important thing in any financial market(s) and the housing prospects look pretty bleak. There are lot of members in the EB community that have NOT bought their own home, even though they could afford one because of the uncertainty with EB GC. IV's idea is to bridge the financial committees and judiciary committees in the House/Senate and see if corresponding Chairman/Ranking members are willing to listen. Things are moving so fast with the 700bn USD bail out plan and we will NOT have time to do things the normal way, through our counsel. We have to present this idea to the corresponding staff members of key members of congress (see list below) and see if this gets traction now or going forward.
Please do not bring EB-5 discussion/comparison here. The proposed partial solution is different from EB-5 in that EB-5 investors invest money and we are investing in our future with a genuine intention of making USA our permanent home.
If you already have a home, thats fine. Any such legislation will reduce the wait times in EB categories and we need housing markets to rebound for a safer economy before the ripple effects are felt every where.
Who to write to
Staff members(Chief of Staff, Legislative LA, Financial LA, Legislative Director) of Chairman/Ranking members of House/Senate Judiciary committee & Finance/Banking committee, Staff members of your representative and your senators. Please find staff members of the committees in the spreadsheet (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pptN-jEpAiyd3snslhPjBfw).
You can find your representative & senator staff members on this website (http://www.outsourcecongress.org/outsource/congress/schstaffers.html).
Please use valid email addresses and NOT fictitious/junk mail. It undermines the whole purpose and our emails will be flagged by mail scanners / spam checkers as some thing similar to famous Nigeria bank account scams.
Email Subject: Proposal to alleviate current US Housing/economic crisis
Content/Message
SUMMARY
This proposal alleviates the current US economic crisis, by motivating the US high skilled, legal immigrant workers to purchase homes. The size of this immigrant population is approximately 800,000 individuals. This effort if successful would inject up to US$ 20Billion approximately into the economy (approximately US$ 100 Billion in houses sold across the country) , while at the same time directing this money into the root cause of the economic crisis � the illiquidity of the national housing market. The above calculation is done
assuming a median US home price of $212,400 and buyers making a down-payment of 20% of the cost of the home. Roughly estimating 400,000 buyers.
BACKGROUND
Undoubtedly, we are all devastated by the shake up on Wall Street in the past 15 days. Experts agree that the underpinning problem is the housing crisis caused by sub-prime mortgage loans. Many of us, who cannot afford our monthly mortgage payments are losing homes and putting them up for sale and foreclosure, which further adds to the crisis. At the same time, most of the Employment-based (EB) immigrant community would like to purchase homes and make the United States a permanent home for their families. These EB immigrants however, are living in a state of limbo, mostly in rental apartments because of the delays and uncertainties involved with the EB immigration procedure. The wait times in EB categories are exacerbated by the delays in processing by USCIS, even though eligible applicants have filed for Permanent Residency also known as Adjustment of Status. Such processing delays have resulted in the wastage of 218,000 immigrant visa numbers (Page 52 of USCIS Ombudsman Annual report 2007). The current Department of State visa bulletin shows 7+ years of wait times in certain categories. We strongly believe that legislation can be worked out in such a way that the housing markets all over the country can move towards recovery, while at the same time motivating the Green Card applicants to catalyze this recovery.
It should be noted that this proposal by no means brings more immigrant workers into the US. The workers in the EB, skilled category are already present in the US, doing skilled jobs that no US worker is available to do. They are part of the long queue of backlogged cases that USICIS will eventually process; however, this wait can take years and in that case could not be used as a tool to minimize the course of the current economic crisis.
SOLUTION
Congress can pass legislation that exempts EB green card applicants and their dependents from the numerical limits of visa numbers, provided applicant(s) have bought a home making 20% down payment on the sale price of the home, for a time period deemed necessary by the congress.
How can Employment based Immigrants help alleviate the housing problem?
(1) Employment based immigrants are highly skilled and are employed in occupations such as Software, IT, Health care, Energy, Finance, Education and Research & Development across the United States.
(2) Average income of these individuals/households is around 65,000/130,000 USD.
(3) All these Employment based immigrants have gone through Department of Labor�s recruiting process, which certifies that there is no willing, able and qualified US Citizen to do the job.
(4) Most of the Employment based immigrants have excellent credit history and good source of income to make the payments needed for their home mortgage.
(5) By requiring a 20% down payment from this group of buyers, Congress can directly channel this money to where it is need most � at the banks.
(6) Employment based green card applicants have been living in the United States for 6-8 years. Many of them have US graduate degrees in their fields of expertise. These applicants are well versed with the American culture and will not change the cultural landscape.
(7) Financial burden on US government and treasury will be reduced drastically if the glut of houses in the market decreases.
As a member of the community that wants to make the US its permanent home, I want to contribute to a solution that helps USA and US during these tough times. I sincerely believe that the 30 year commitment on mortgages by Employment based immigrants in the housing market, backed by solid, risk free mortgages can turn the down ward spiral in the housing market into a upward spiral.
END OF CONTENT
more...
deafTunes123
08-02 06:54 AM
I don't think that search is giving the accurate info. I know at least 10 Amway guys by name in my neighbor hood (you can guess how many... many... times I've been tortured) and none of their names is appearing. May be it is giving the names of those silver or what ever their hierarchy is.
Its a good info to catch and hopefully its useful.
Guys! This is getting interesting. Guess what I found!! Now you can find out the names of your local friendly Amway Independent Business owners!!!
Go to https://www.amway.com/Shop/Registration/CustomerRegistration.aspx?Country=US
Scroll down to the section titled "Benefits of Being Affiliated with an Independent Business Owner", select "Show me a list of IBOs in my area that I can select from".... put your zip code and voila!!!!
I put my own zipcode 94536, and most of the names are desi. Confirms my suspicion that there are more desi's sucked into this than........
Now post what you find in your area!
Its a good info to catch and hopefully its useful.
Guys! This is getting interesting. Guess what I found!! Now you can find out the names of your local friendly Amway Independent Business owners!!!
Go to https://www.amway.com/Shop/Registration/CustomerRegistration.aspx?Country=US
Scroll down to the section titled "Benefits of Being Affiliated with an Independent Business Owner", select "Show me a list of IBOs in my area that I can select from".... put your zip code and voila!!!!
I put my own zipcode 94536, and most of the names are desi. Confirms my suspicion that there are more desi's sucked into this than........
Now post what you find in your area!
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Hassan11
07-11 04:20 PM
Here is his email address: moyersonpbs@thirteen.org.
Plese send him stories about the VB fiasco and also all your stories about working in US and deciding to move to Canada because of immigration broken system. I am pretty sure, if he receives enough articles, he will do a program about this. Please email him as many stories as possible.
Good luck to all
Plese send him stories about the VB fiasco and also all your stories about working in US and deciding to move to Canada because of immigration broken system. I am pretty sure, if he receives enough articles, he will do a program about this. Please email him as many stories as possible.
Good luck to all
more...
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Lasantha
09-06 02:39 PM
We applied for canadian immigration in 2002 but didn't have to provide the IELTS results. Things might have changed since then.
I guess it all depend on the CO and how well you present your case in your application. If you provide enough evidence to show your fluency in the language they might accept them. But it's always a good idea to be prepared and do the test anyway. That was what I did.
I guess it all depend on the CO and how well you present your case in your application. If you provide enough evidence to show your fluency in the language they might accept them. But it's always a good idea to be prepared and do the test anyway. That was what I did.
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gcpool
03-20 10:03 AM
I have heard that Job are not easily available there and the taxes are high.
Think about it. I know people who have filed and almost got it and have decided to stay. (Waste of time and money).
Hi, I am seriously planning to start Canadian immigration after wasting 7 years of my life in chasing GC. Can anybody suggest some good lawyers/attorneies/agencies who are not money suckers like US immigration attornies ? Also, somebody mentioned that one can apply Can immigration by himself. Is there any issue with that ?
Thanks
Think about it. I know people who have filed and almost got it and have decided to stay. (Waste of time and money).
Hi, I am seriously planning to start Canadian immigration after wasting 7 years of my life in chasing GC. Can anybody suggest some good lawyers/attorneies/agencies who are not money suckers like US immigration attornies ? Also, somebody mentioned that one can apply Can immigration by himself. Is there any issue with that ?
Thanks
more...
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caliducas
07-13 09:40 AM
Alright! Back to the US immigration deal! There is still hope and the battle is not over. So I wish you all the best with your cases. Mine has not been rejected/returned yet since my application was delivered on July 3rd. I don't know what will happen, but there is still hope!!!
:)
:)
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Pineapple
12-14 05:10 PM
I can understand your concerns.. and no, I do no resent your comment. I rather welcome a different viewpoint! IV, I emphatically maintain is made up ordinary people, like you and me, regardless of nationality and culture. I'm not a core member, but that, in itself, is the point - there is no top-down hierarchy, no "party line". IV is us. It is the very embodiment of the philosophy, "Of the people, by the people, and for the people" .
If it were any different, I would not be here.
That said, let me address your concerns. You (and anyone else) is free to disagree.
Let us say all country quotas are removed. In that case, yes, you will see a majority of GCs going to people of Indian and Chinese extraction. But to say that the removal of country quota is going to disadvantage people of other countries is a mathematical fallacy.
Let me explain it this way, using an analogy. Suppose you take part in a lotto game. The prizes (GC) are limited. Say there is only one prize and you have 100 participants. Also, further, let us say 80 are from California and 20 are from Pennsylvania.
If you play the game several times, you will see that 80 % of the prizes go to people from California.
But, that does not mean that you will improve your chances of winning if you move from Pennsylvania to California!!
Your odds are exactly the same - 1 in 100.
Removing country quotas would have the same consequence: If would actually give everyone a level playing field, and everyone would have the same shot at making the coveted quota of 140,000 EB GCs.
But when you have quotas, the probabilities are severely distorted. Especially when you have arbitrary quotas. (Why 7 %? Why not 9 %? Why not 5.247 %?).
In this case, if you are from India or China, you are seriously disadvantaged, while someone from a smaller country gets an unfair advantage. This is not complex political philosophy. It is school boy arithmetic.
You see what I mean?
When an Indian or Chinese asks for no country quotas, he/she is not asking for more.. He/she can no more control the wind as control where he/she is born. He/she is just asking to have a fair chance just as anyone else in the world. Why should he/she be penalized for being born in a big country?
I hope you see what I mean.
Anyway, the thread is about whether we can make a constitutionality argument in the court. The issue of "fairness" is quite settled as I explained above.
I know what I am about to say will trigger a lot of reaction and some resentment, but it has to be said on behalf of those who are not Indian. I think the per country limit is to ensure that people of all nationalities and races have an equal opportunity to obtain a green card and to ensure that no one nationality, group, or even sector (i.e. IT) monopolizes the so few visas that are available. In fact, in the visa lottery, countries become excluded when the number of immigrants from them reach a certain point, so we are lucky they do not do that in the Employment-based system!
I think that by wanting to remove the per country limit so more Indians can avail of the green card quota is both asking for "special treatment" and a slap in the face for all the non-Indian IV members. The more I read the threads on this site, the more I feel that this organization is geared just to one ethnic group. I am sure that Indians probably make up the majority of members, but the founders of IV (I hope) did not want this organization to become one-sided! Please be considerate of ALL members and try to come up with suggestions that would benefit ALL members!!!:mad:
If it were any different, I would not be here.
That said, let me address your concerns. You (and anyone else) is free to disagree.
Let us say all country quotas are removed. In that case, yes, you will see a majority of GCs going to people of Indian and Chinese extraction. But to say that the removal of country quota is going to disadvantage people of other countries is a mathematical fallacy.
Let me explain it this way, using an analogy. Suppose you take part in a lotto game. The prizes (GC) are limited. Say there is only one prize and you have 100 participants. Also, further, let us say 80 are from California and 20 are from Pennsylvania.
If you play the game several times, you will see that 80 % of the prizes go to people from California.
But, that does not mean that you will improve your chances of winning if you move from Pennsylvania to California!!
Your odds are exactly the same - 1 in 100.
Removing country quotas would have the same consequence: If would actually give everyone a level playing field, and everyone would have the same shot at making the coveted quota of 140,000 EB GCs.
But when you have quotas, the probabilities are severely distorted. Especially when you have arbitrary quotas. (Why 7 %? Why not 9 %? Why not 5.247 %?).
In this case, if you are from India or China, you are seriously disadvantaged, while someone from a smaller country gets an unfair advantage. This is not complex political philosophy. It is school boy arithmetic.
You see what I mean?
When an Indian or Chinese asks for no country quotas, he/she is not asking for more.. He/she can no more control the wind as control where he/she is born. He/she is just asking to have a fair chance just as anyone else in the world. Why should he/she be penalized for being born in a big country?
I hope you see what I mean.
Anyway, the thread is about whether we can make a constitutionality argument in the court. The issue of "fairness" is quite settled as I explained above.
I know what I am about to say will trigger a lot of reaction and some resentment, but it has to be said on behalf of those who are not Indian. I think the per country limit is to ensure that people of all nationalities and races have an equal opportunity to obtain a green card and to ensure that no one nationality, group, or even sector (i.e. IT) monopolizes the so few visas that are available. In fact, in the visa lottery, countries become excluded when the number of immigrants from them reach a certain point, so we are lucky they do not do that in the Employment-based system!
I think that by wanting to remove the per country limit so more Indians can avail of the green card quota is both asking for "special treatment" and a slap in the face for all the non-Indian IV members. The more I read the threads on this site, the more I feel that this organization is geared just to one ethnic group. I am sure that Indians probably make up the majority of members, but the founders of IV (I hope) did not want this organization to become one-sided! Please be considerate of ALL members and try to come up with suggestions that would benefit ALL members!!!:mad:
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unseenguy
08-16 05:54 PM
Let's look at the following news items
"21 farmers end lives in 40 days in Andhra". Is anyone looking into this? Helooooo.
Well i want to see a day when you are held up in secondary for 1.5 hours and then tell us your opinion.
Your post is biased in the sense you trust everything thats coming out from immigration CBP but nothing that comes from Shahrukh. I want to know how did they count 66 mins accurately?
A) was it time from standing in queue to being released?
B_ Was it time of primary + secondary
C) was it time of secondary only?
Did they have stop watch from the time shahrukh entered the building?
"21 farmers end lives in 40 days in Andhra". Is anyone looking into this? Helooooo.
Well i want to see a day when you are held up in secondary for 1.5 hours and then tell us your opinion.
Your post is biased in the sense you trust everything thats coming out from immigration CBP but nothing that comes from Shahrukh. I want to know how did they count 66 mins accurately?
A) was it time from standing in queue to being released?
B_ Was it time of primary + secondary
C) was it time of secondary only?
Did they have stop watch from the time shahrukh entered the building?
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smisachu
06-16 03:58 PM
On the Mark:)
I am waiting in the line as well for GC or to be sent back home and personally, I want everyone to get their GC and don't agree with dilipcr. Kind of off-topic but I made this observation:
IMHO simsachu's reasoning is sound.
Your example is not the same as simsachu's. simsachu assumes there are way more "bad" fish compared to the good one's in the population. Hence you need to catch more fish to come across a "good" one.
You assume the opposite (there are very few bad fish) and hence come to the conclusion that catching more fish would net you more bad fish (but way more "good" fish as well) as well. But given your assumption, it is puzzling why you want to have lesser number of GC's (if indeed that is what you are advocating, I haven't read all the messages in the thread) when you assume there are way more "good" candidates than bad.
I am waiting in the line as well for GC or to be sent back home and personally, I want everyone to get their GC and don't agree with dilipcr. Kind of off-topic but I made this observation:
IMHO simsachu's reasoning is sound.
Your example is not the same as simsachu's. simsachu assumes there are way more "bad" fish compared to the good one's in the population. Hence you need to catch more fish to come across a "good" one.
You assume the opposite (there are very few bad fish) and hence come to the conclusion that catching more fish would net you more bad fish (but way more "good" fish as well) as well. But given your assumption, it is puzzling why you want to have lesser number of GC's (if indeed that is what you are advocating, I haven't read all the messages in the thread) when you assume there are way more "good" candidates than bad.
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grupak
02-13 01:34 PM
Finally you hit the nail on its head. That’s why the per country limit is there so no one country with larger population can monopolize any agenda the way you are trying to do with IV.
I don't understand this logic. We are talking about employment based GC.
Lets be clear that we are talking about people who are employed in the US and their employers have sponsored their green cards (except the EB2-NIW, EB1_EA). These people are employed because of their skill at jobs not their national origin.
Are you suggesting that somehow people of some countries have monopolized the foreign worker pool by born in the same country and NOT because of their skill.
Since we are talking about a privilege and benefit that comes from being employed in the US, you are actually suggesting that US employers should consider country of birth and not just skill in the employment.
Tell me how did the Chinese, Indian, Mexican and Filipino workers unfairly monopolized the foreign worker pool. As far as I am aware, these countries have large populations and a lot of Science and Engineering graduates happen to be from these countries.
The country cap makes sense in family based immigration system when extended beyond the immediate family members. IV is not for FB GC issues.
Again, employment in the US is based on skill not country of birth. The foreign workers are here because they are needed, and US will benefit by keeping these skilled workers long term. What IV is doing benefits all employment based GC.
I don't understand this logic. We are talking about employment based GC.
Lets be clear that we are talking about people who are employed in the US and their employers have sponsored their green cards (except the EB2-NIW, EB1_EA). These people are employed because of their skill at jobs not their national origin.
Are you suggesting that somehow people of some countries have monopolized the foreign worker pool by born in the same country and NOT because of their skill.
Since we are talking about a privilege and benefit that comes from being employed in the US, you are actually suggesting that US employers should consider country of birth and not just skill in the employment.
Tell me how did the Chinese, Indian, Mexican and Filipino workers unfairly monopolized the foreign worker pool. As far as I am aware, these countries have large populations and a lot of Science and Engineering graduates happen to be from these countries.
The country cap makes sense in family based immigration system when extended beyond the immediate family members. IV is not for FB GC issues.
Again, employment in the US is based on skill not country of birth. The foreign workers are here because they are needed, and US will benefit by keeping these skilled workers long term. What IV is doing benefits all employment based GC.
TeddyKoochu
09-24 12:15 PM
This analysis is really excellent, how far do you foresee the EB2-I date going this year. Is there any hope for new people to file 485 this year? People who missed Jul 07 have waited long and can wait till next Sep in the hope that we will be able to file 485 this year.
ryan
08-17 08:38 PM
True greatness is shown by humility, not pride.
Al Gore, Kalam, etc are great personalities.
SRK nah!!
Thousands of South Asians have gone through same treatment.
Growup SRK, don't be such a baby :D.
I have never watched his movies, and i got one more reason not to watch "My name is Khan".
Nicely said mate. I cannot believe the kind of people who're on this forum. Some love to beat you up with all those reds for honest thoughts on someone quite insignificant, like an SRK. He is a guy who gives a hoot and remain oblivious to your dilemma or your struggles and in all probability used the alleged incident at EWR as a Public relations stunt for his new movie. Goes to show some of you truly have no self esteem in yourself. Unfortunate.
Al Gore, Kalam, etc are great personalities.
SRK nah!!
Thousands of South Asians have gone through same treatment.
Growup SRK, don't be such a baby :D.
I have never watched his movies, and i got one more reason not to watch "My name is Khan".
Nicely said mate. I cannot believe the kind of people who're on this forum. Some love to beat you up with all those reds for honest thoughts on someone quite insignificant, like an SRK. He is a guy who gives a hoot and remain oblivious to your dilemma or your struggles and in all probability used the alleged incident at EWR as a Public relations stunt for his new movie. Goes to show some of you truly have no self esteem in yourself. Unfortunate.
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